The Coach Approach in Healthcare:
How Clinicians Add Coaching Skills Inside a Clinical Visit

Transforming Healthcare Coaching Podcast — Episode 114: The Coach Approach in Clinical Practice. Host Lillian Liang Emlet, MD MS CHSE CPC ELI-MP interviews guest Hélène Thériault, MCC MAdEd BScOT, occupational therapist and founder of Function First Coaching. Published June 22, 2026.

Hélène Thériault: did a, a whitepaper on this. I really dug into, deep into this, and I called it "The Symmetry of Failure." And it was fascinating to discover that these numbers are so similar. You have about 60% of us that want to leave healthcare. 60% of our patients that don't follow through. And when you get to the bottom of it, it's the same problem.

Lillian Emlet: So picture this: you're seven minutes into a patient visit. They've just told you what's wrong. And without even thinking, you do what every part of your training has taught you to do. You fix it. You explain. You hand them the plan. You move on. And later that night, you wonder why you're so tired, why none of it sticks, why your patient comes back the next month with exactly the same thing. our guest today, Hélène Thierault, has spent more than 20 years inside healthcare, and she'll tell you something that might be hard to hear. problem isn't your patient. The problem isn't you. The problem is the role you've been handed, this all-knowing fixer, and nobody has ever shown you that there's another way to show up in the office, in our clinical encounters, in the way we are in the healthcare environment. So Hélène is a master certified coach, which means that she has hundreds upon thousands of, hours of experience, and she's an educator, an occupational therapist, and creator of a methodology that's quietly changing how clinicians show up to do their work. And in our podcast today, she's going to talk about the shift that she wishes someone had handed her in the clinic 10 years ago. Hélène, thank you so much for being here on the podcast

Hélène Thériault: Oh, you're more than welcome. I made that shift 24 years ago right away. I'm so jealous of my students that get to hear about this approach, right away in their practice as students. But thank you for having me, Lilly. It's such a pleasure

Lillian Emlet: And so Helene, as a master certified coach, she's a clinical instructor at the University of British Columbia, Founder of Function First Coaching, and creator of the method called Dive into a Coach Approach, which has trained hundreds of healthcare professionals across North America. And Helene, what I love about your work and what the honor is for you to be sharing with our, community of healthcare practitioners and healthcare professionals is that you're not asking clinicians to leave their profession to become coaches. You're handing them a different way to show up in the room, day in, day out. And so I think that's really unique about your training programs and what you're adding to the profession. So, we had talked about the fact that, all the way back in the day, there's a moment all of us in our career when the way we were trained and the way we were mentored is not enough, when we figured out, like, there's got to be something different. and so what was that moment for you when things changed and you said, we need to do this differently"?

Hélène Thériault: Yeah. There's two moments actually, and when you put, merge them together, it completely shift my practice, and I mean 180 complete shift. And it impacted every single future interaction I had with my clients going forward. The first moment, was 14 years in my practice. This is why I'm jealous that student some people can get this, but appreciate that I was 14 years in my career, and it was a Thursday night. I was working in the community at the time, and I'm driving home, and for the first time in 14 years, I am not looking forward to going to work the next day. I am dreading going to work because it was a Friday, and it was my quarterly report writing day. In private practice, you write these detailed reports. You have these smart goals you need to indicate in your initial assessment report. Every quarter, you're reporting how the progress is going. And I knew the next day for every single one of those clients, I was going to have to write goal not achieved. And that moment really struck me because I remember. I remember the car I was driving. I remember what I was wearing. I remember this visceral reaction head to toe that I could even think about leaving the profession. It is my identity. It is who I am. I've worked so hard to get here. But in that moment, I asked myself, "What the heck am I doing? This is not my why for being in healthcare." Not one of my clients had followed through on my recommendations. So that was one moment, and it was a hard moment that I sat with. And you fast-forward, the other piece that merged it together was the second moment, and this was months later. And I had taken on a clinical lead position. Still had a full caseload, of course, but that's what led to me landing in a coaching training. Because as we know, it's a, in a leadership role, I knew that those coaching skills were going to be essential That's when it came together. That's when I realized the missing link, the missing piece of the puzzle. And I was not thinking in the in that training. I was thinking about my clients. I was thinking about my clinical role. And that's when it hit me to, based on your introduction, that I was showing up as an expert. that was my identity. And if I'm showing up as an expert, I'm the person with the answer. I'm going to be the fixer. I'm going to go see every single one of my clients, and if I'm the fixer, What am I going to do? I'm going to find the problem, and I'm going to find a solution for every single one of you. And it wasn't working. Where I was landing was at a place that my clients were not following through with their goals. Now I know later we'll talk about the research. Now I know why they weren't adhering to their goals. And I was clearly on that path of burnout at that time as well, because I was loading my backpack, which... And I know we'll talk a bit about that as well. But that, those two moments, that Thursday night and that coaching training and getting that insight of that missing piece is really what led to this has to be, this has to look different because I wouldn't have stayed in healthcare

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. It is amazing to think that this is what train for so long, like over a decade, right? to become the expert. And we cling to identity for, I think for many clinicians, they cling to that identity of whatever profession it is, whether you're a nurse practitioner, whether you're a PA, a physician, a nurse. Like, you feel like that being an expert in your field. In fact, you're told this, told this by your own culture, community, boss, but it costs us. And so what are the things that you notice and that you see with the students and the clinicians as they're coming out? how do you begin to point them towards that they should not accept this expert role? I'm sure most students as they're graduating are like, "What do you mean I'm not expert? I've been going to school for 10 years for this." so what is it that you have to point them towards or guide them to be able to see a little bit differently?

Hélène Thériault: first and foremost, just because of that statement, it's reassuring them, hold on to that expert hat. It's inviting them to bring that expertise in a different way so that it lands for the client. And once they appreciate and understand what's the cost for us to show up in healthcare as expert, that helps to start to make that shift. So once they understand that they... And this might help. There's a metaphor that I use with students, that I use in my clinical practice, that I've shared it in, conferences. And for the clinicians in the room, I always get a nod when I share this metaphor. And I share with them it's called the backpack, and it's an invisible backpack. And little did you know, I share, you graduate from medical school, healthcare school, here's your degree, and guess what? Here's this invisible backpack that comes along with it. And this is the piece that is not talked about. That every single time that you're going to do for your client versus with your client, load your backpack. Every single time that you're going to tell a patient what to do and not check in with them how they'll move forward, put that in your backpack. Every single time you're working harder than your patient, which I was very guilty of, put that in your backpack. Every session that you show up and the person is, has not followed through on your recommendation, such as that Thursday day, put that in your backpack. And it compounds. And so if you're looking at the number of patients you see in a day, the number of days you work in a year, the number of years you've been working, it adds up. And so that Thursday night story, that was my backpack getting full. And at the time for me to not realize, unfortunately, did not have the training, the understanding of what burnout really was at that time. And so I went along, I don't know if you're using the stages of burnout, but I was well along on that path, and I didn't catch it. So when I share, and so I, I share a lot of my story when I'm teaching this approach too, because if they can understand what's the cost of being an expert. And I also like to point to them too, then there's the cost for you for burnout, there's the cost for the patient that's sitting in front of you as well. Because if you're in that expert mindset, and this is what the research is showing us, is about sixty percent of our patients are not following through with our recommendation with that expert mindset And so if we can add on a different approach, still show up as an expert, it's needed. they don't know how to move forward with maybe this new diagnosis. They can't prescribe medication. It is needed. And so what I try to... the message I try to add is stay there, just do an add-on in a different way of showing up with your patient. And then with organizations, and this is what I like to share in the presentations, when they're present, is if the cause for not addressing this patient adherence and burnout, the cost is we're leaving the profession. The cost is for them, if they need to replace me, a healthcare practitioner, we're looking at 45,000 to 150,000. And if they're looking to replace you, a medical practitioner, times three. So the numbers speak for themselves we are seeing this adherence problem, we're seeing the burnout problem, and the research... And I did a, a whitepaper on this. I really dug into, deep into this, and I called it the symmetry of failure. And it was fascinating to discover that these numbers are so similar. You have about 60% of us that want to leave healthcare, 60% of our patients that don't follow through. And when you get to the bottom of it, it's the same problem. They're not... And what we're doing is we're trying to fix two different problems, but it's this medical approach, this expert approach that is happening. And we know that the studies are coming out for quite some time about the biopsychosocial model. And so that's what I appreciate about the coach approach, is it's helping with that psychosocial piece and starting to shift healthcare slowly but gradually, one person at a time, as they're learning this. So that's how I try to support students, clinician, to understand the importance behind this and the impact and the ripple effect that it has for them, for the client, for the organization, and the community that the patient lives in and they live in.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah, that's really wonderful. I think, also I really love the for versus with, and that's definitely one of those things where, I do think that so much of the way we burn out in healthcare is because we think we're doing this for our team, we're doing it for our patients, we're doing it for... And then when someone else doesn't do their job, So you often see this in teamwork, Because healthcare isn't in a professional sport now. If someone doesn't do their job, then we get angry and we blame rather than how can we all empower each other to be both, be successful to get the job done together. And so whether you're a leader hearing this and how this applies to have a coach approach as a leader, it's also how you have a coach approach with your patients, how you have a coach approach with other professions in the teamwork that you need to deliver. And so I love that for versus with, and if we can just change that word, just the way I think a lot of times we teach in our communication skills, removing all the buts and making it an and. I've heard that sentence so many times. So many times. And it's always curious. I mean, it's a very different way of being, to be with people, to be alongside, to be together.

Hélène Thériault: And I think to your point, it's that, mindset, and if we start to shift and being okay, yes, being the expert, but adding on viewing our clients, our patients, or if we're in the leadership position, viewing your staff as the expert in their own situation, because they really are. They really are the experts in their own situation, and really truly believing, and that's the shift, the maybe an add-on layer for clinicians to use this approach directly with their patients, is really truly believing that they have the answer within themselves. And there's one story, that just comes to mind as I share that, that was so powerful that was shared with me recently, and it's a client that had a stroke, and she's probably three to four months into her recovery, and this OT started to use a coach approach with this patient. And maybe in session three or four, this OT comes back and says, "Helen, do you know what happened that gave me goosebumps?" because I talk about goosebumps all the time. She said, "Do you know what happened that gave me goosebumps? She shared with me that I was the first person to really trust that she could have the answer within herself." And in one of our session and when she realized this, that, wow, I still have the ability to come up with a solution. I still have that skill set. And she realized that in her session because this OT used a coach approach, and that client cried in that moment. She had no idea that this was still an ability that she still had. So it was really transformational, and from that point on, she made gains after gains in her progress, and that's one OT truly believing that you've got the solution within her, and doing with, not for

Lillian Emlet: Love that. and so, a lot of clinicians hear coaching, and they either think life coaching like they see on Instagram, or they think executive and leadership coaching like what we do for healthcare leaders, and neither of those feels exactly, how they might translate it with patients and their families. And so how do you like to explain what a coach approach is generally speaking? So whether you're a PA, NP, OT, PT, what is a coach approach to that encounter?

Hélène Thériault: Such an important distinction that needs to be made and also needs to be clearer to support practitioners, the research, to support decision-makers, and we will see a big shift happening in the next couple years as the research is really gaining a lot of momentum in that. First and foremost, I'll say a coach approach is not life coaching That's the first thing I'll start with, and I'll explain the coach approach in healthcare can be done by any healthcare professional, medical practitioner, and they are doing this embedded in their clinical role. So it's not a one or the other. It's really an add-on to think of. So the healthcare hat doesn't come off. I'll also talk about a spectrum to help that point land, and then if we take your situation, your example, you're a doctor. Let's say you're on that, as a doctor on that left side of the spectrum, an occupational therapist, and for you as our doctor, you're going to be prescribing, you're going to assess, you're going to diagnose, you're going to educate your clients. When you show up, because you also do leadership coaching, so that brings you to the other end of the spectrum. What changes there is it's completely client-led. At no point... you're agenda-free. You don't show up to those sessions, you have no idea what leadership topic they're going to pick. So it's agenda-free. At no point are you mentoring when you're using that true coach approach. At no point are you telling them exactly what to do. You're not diagnosis in that lane. The coach approach in healthcare lives in the middle of that spectrum, and that really here is you're showing up as the expert, but at some point you're going to decide, ah, I'm identifying, for example, maybe a perceptual barrier. in your situation it could be I'm noticing that the patient has a belief about medication, and I don't think they're going to follow through and adhere to my medication prescription. So I'm going to put my prescription pad down for a sec, and I'm going to ask, Tell me about your thoughts about these medications that I'm prescribing for you." So it's just a shift that you're adding in that moment when you're identifying a block.

Lillian Emlet: And so I think the reality is like, just like you're saying, that so much data has shown that, we can think of professional coaches like myself and like yourself, we get additional certification, we have standards, we're observed, we have feedback, we have mentoring, we have supervision. There's a whole process to become a professional coach on one end of the spectrum. And just like there is a whole bunch of training and education needs to happen if you're going to become a NP, PA, PT, OT, or physician, right? So there's on both sides. And somewhere in between, many of our clients actually do wonder, "How could I become a coach so that I can become a better leader or a better physician? How can I take some of the things I've learned by working with a professional coach into my daily practice?" so I call it what, just like communication skills or palliative medicine skills, there's what we call primary skills, where everybody should have a little bit of understanding. And then of course, not everyone becomes a hospice and palliative care specialist. That's one and becoming subspecialty. So becoming a full professional coach like you and I, you don't need to have all of that. However, there are lots of different ways where you can begin your skills and add it to your toolbox so you're a more effective leader and more effective clinician

Hélène Thériault: Exactly. And that's exactly the gap that I identified early on, and that's how the Dive Into a Coach Approach, the Coach Approach in Healthcare certification came to be about, is my intent, we need people to know about coaching skills and use that in healthcare, and it's powerful. Like the first level that we deliver is self-paced 12 hours, and I just finished a program with a cohort of 800 and reviewing the re- the findings this week, and powerful the statements that they share in their learning and feedback form after 12 hours. So a lot of shift can happen with 12 hours. And yes, to get to our level, to really use that formal coach approach, absolutely, it does take more time, but there's a lot that, a lot of return of investment, is what organizations are getting from a little bit of training and shifting that culture,

Lillian Emlet: that leads directly into my next question. You've spent years actually creating this methodology, the Dive Into the Coach approach, this training program for continuing education for OTs and other healthcare professionals across North America. and so you've really created this new middle ground. Like, the end of yourself, because really there is very There are not specifically healthcare professional guided, clinician forward focusing, integrated teach coaching skills into daily practice. and so what is your evidence showing? And, like, what is happening with this particular, coaching training program? So tell us about the program.

Hélène Thériault: Yeah, so we're capturing a lot of data. So the program is a micro-credentialing journey, and that was important to set it up that way because to your point, that level one, 12 hours, that's when I work with organization, that's where we start. And the hope, the goal is often for everyone in the organization to understand what coaching is. In that 12 hours, they are- they understand a model created by and for healthcare. They have a coaching, a four-step coaching framework, 10 techniques that supports them to use those four steps of the framework. Four mindset metaphors, I've turned it into a fun way to... so that the information sticks, because those metaphors are what s- will support them to shift from a fix-it mindset to the doing with mindset. and so create- starting with that, but we know that there are leaders in the organizations, they are clinical leads. We- there are people that in order to support the organization to maintain this learning, you're going to need your coaching champions, is what I call them. So they will go... It's almost you've gone to the International Coaching Federation route. It's like doing the ACC. It's, I don't know, 50 to 60-hour coaching education. This is where I get to, in the level two It's, and this is where people too are realizing, wow, this is harder than it seems, this coaching thing. It's easy to understand and it's so fun for us to teach it, isn't it? But for, it's when they start practicing. And so in that level two is 20 hours of training, and this is where they start the peer coaching. This is where, they bring their specific case situations, and, "Helen, this has come up. How do I deal with this with my coaching hat on at the same time?" and so That 20 hours is really where it starts to become more second nature. And that third level for those coaching champions is really important because that's when they do formal coaching sessions with a paid client, and that's next level. It's so different when you're doing peer coaching compared to, like, real coaching, is the terms I would use. And they get to experience that and the growth feedback following those core coaching competencies. So it's really in that third and, the second and the third level that those core coaching competencies are ingrained a bit more. It starts to be more second nature, and this is when you start to hear stories about how their habits are changing, and that mindset becomes more natural. And it's important to have those coaching champions. It was really important for me to... I started with just a level one at the beginning, and I thought, "We're not shifting healthcare with just with this. We need coaching champions embedded because I can't be in every single organization. we need to have those champions that can maintain and continue through their team meetings, continue the peer coaching, and really maintain that language and the culture shift for the organization."

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. No, that makes sense. Especially also because really hard. It's like a learning community, right? So I think even when I think about, some of my facilitation, and teaching groups, with VitalTalk, faculty need other faculty who are able to be able to speak the language and also get support, just like coaches need other coaches for mentor coaching and also supervision to just know that, what do you do when these situations come up? How do you handle, different circumstances? And it's just to be able to create that community.

Hélène Thériault: Yeah. And it's fascinating to watch it happen too, between the leader and the clinician. because once everyone has that coaching training, I'll hear comments from the clinicians like, "You're coaching me right now," right, to their leaders. Like, "You're coach- you're coach approaching me right now." It's a fantastic way of learning and reinforcing it. Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: no, it's great. It's funny because it's one of those things where, in one of our communication communities, we often will accidentally say a sentence because like you said, you eventually become embodied and it becomes a habit, and you just don't see any other way of approaching a situation. And so, I mean, that's why I think it's really fun to be in learning with other coaches because coaches have, different ways of seeing things. And so it's really, it's refreshing, compared to when you're in your own hole of just trying to figure out, like, what the solution might be with a particular circumstance. It's nice to have wider, a wider lens.

Hélène Thériault: Yes, absolutely

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. And so I'm curious, in, in training clinicians, because I try to just do one very small kind of workshop, and you're right, the very first feedback is, "Ugh, this is really hard to be an academic coach. It's hard to be a peer coach." What's the single hardest habit to break when clinicians are trying to integrate this approach? Where do people get stuck?

Hélène Thériault: I would say it, I'm seeing a pattern, depending on the number of hours of training that they have. So after the level one, so they have about 12 hours of training, the biggest challenge will be to listen actively. So that, ICF, number six core coaching competency. So they'll talk about it's hard for me to not interrupt, to allow that silence is part of it, and to not... Before they jump into solutions. So they'll still, so notice, before I jump into solutions, like, so they'll still say a bit of that in that level one. But that's fantastic, the fact that they're pausing, they're really trying to be at that level three of active listening, and the impact in itself that it's having has been phenomenal. When people get to the level two at this point, they have 20 to 40 hours of training. That they'll say it, that it's starting to become more second nature, and they're really working harder to ask that powerful question, for example, that will lead to insight. So they're really-- they'll share things like, "I'm trying to not just ask clarity and curiosity questions just to ask those open-ended question." They're trying to be even if just that one golden powerful question. And then at level three, and I just finished a cohort, every single one, so this is where they have 50 hours of training. I give them group feedback, and they've just worked with six sessions. Every single one of them was about setting an agreement. So that's one of the main, the third core co- coaching competency is establishing and maintaining an agreement. They have one, but for every single group feedback, I gave them your next step to make it almost like a smart set of contract to really get them to get to the solution, to get to the root of it much quicker. And that's the growth or the habits shift that I'm seeing as they progress.

Lillian Emlet: that makes sense. I mean, it's really not that different from actually our coaching journey, Like, in terms of just trying to figure out, like, well, how do I actively listen? And for some of us, that actually is easier or already something that we had already incorporated in our practice. But figuring out what question to ask, because there are so many questions you can ask, and crafting it quickly within that moment is very, different skills for different people, and then, like, I really like your last part about, the fact that when by the time you're in practice, really the question is how can we be more laser-like or more specific with agreeing together this is where we want to go. Because if we can be specific, then at least we're heading in, like, in a more correct direction rather than an exploratory... I mean, we could get there. We get there the slow way. Some people still enjoy the slow way of getting there. It's that some people also relieve for the bang, for your buck, for your engagement it is nice to have some wins along the way

Hélène Thériault: Absolutely

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. And so I'm wondering if, someone's listening to our podcast now and has come this far, they're driving in the car and like, "Okay, I totally... I'm in. I buy this. I really want to try this," but they have a full clinic tomorrow. They don't necessarily have all the time quite yet to devote to the least the 12 hours of initial training. They only have a couple of minutes per patient, maybe like seven or 10 minutes. What's the smallest concrete, tiny actionable shift that you suggest to our listeners to try right now?

Hélène Thériault: My invitation would be to catch yourself when you're stepping in that expert mindset. Catch yourself when... Let's say I'm your patient, catch yourself when you're prescribing something to me, and see if you can do an add-on. For example, and this was an actual situation where I had to coach the patient on, the doctor prescribed this person, for the very first time, medication. They have never had to deal with medication. So the patient comes in, "Susie Q., you've got this diagnosis. These are the two new medications you'll have to take. So this one two times a day, this one three times a day. Thank you for your time. See you next time." Done. at no point... And then you fast-forward six months, eight months, nine months before they come to me, and it's become a larger item. And the only thing that could, what could have happened in that moment is if the doctor would have asked, Helene I know this is the first time you're being prescribed medication. how do you feel about these medications I'm prescribing to you?" And if they would have taken that time to ask just that one question, they actually would have diagnosed, gotten more diagnostic information. They would have realized, wow, there's a big perceptual barrier here with this person, and there's strong belief against medication, and they are not going to take it unless I go deeper, and I solve, And we work, and we talk this through to this coach approach conversation, and we get to the bottom of it, and we shift that belief. Because if that belief is not changed, she will not. And this was a diagnosis that in order to have a quality of life and have another 30, 40 years, these medications are needed. And so it led to something much bigger and all it needed. But I can also appreciate when the physician is sitting there as well, or the healthcare practitioner, and if I ask that question, I'm opening up a door, right? I'm having them... I don't know how long they're going to take to give me that answer, and I know that my next patient is waiting. I have a room of patients outside waiting for me. So I can appreciate that it might, we, it- we may not want to avoid it. And what I share in those, to those that are concerned about the time that it takes to do that add-on question, what's the cost, what's the time if it's not addressed?

Lillian Emlet: Mm-hmm,

Hélène Thériault: If they're going to come back

Lillian Emlet: It's like a nine months you said, right? A lot

Hélène Thériault: Yeah. And then,

Lillian Emlet: too, of times,

Hélène Thériault: yeah

Lillian Emlet: within team-based care, right? Like a lot of times it's really going to be, we do also have a nurse navigator. We also have, other people on the care team. Once even if we open up the Pandora and we say, "We really appreciate your sharing that concern with me, and I also know I can't get to you in the next two minutes. is it okay if I share it with the rest of the care team so that social worker, nurse, everybody else can like be on the same page together, be able to support you through that?" And they're like, "Okay, sounds good." And you're like, and then you write into the chart, and then off it goes into the... And then you do a little quick Teams message, right? Because a lot of times now we have care teams that we communicate across professions to be able to row in the same direction.

Hélène Thériault: Goosebumps as you shared that. This is how it should be. This is how, like, this is the vision that I have how healthcare teams are working together. And this is why when I put this training together, even though I'm an occupational therapist, and when it first started was because my OT association inviting me to deliver. And I thought, "I cannot create something for just occupational therapists," because I was being faced with the challenge of I'm the only one on the team using this as approach, and it's great and I'm making some gains, but boy, would I be so much more ahead if the whole team knew my language. And so you just spoke to something that I'm really, passionate about. Yeah. Thank you.

Lillian Emlet: And I think it's funny because it's one of those things where both you and I both with our companies, we both have a very interprofessional slant in general. Many companies are very, single specialty or single, job description potentially. but I do think that the reality is we do all work together. We can influence each other, both from an energy perspective, a leadership perspective, and as we'll see, a coach approach perspective. to get into a little bit more into the model, so let's say, someone's like, "Okay, I'm in. I can easily take 12 hours. I can spend some CME money." And then I kind of want to go even further. You have, I think, maybe 16 techniques in your dive into a coach approach model. Could you

Hélène Thériault: Yeah

Lillian Emlet: or teach our listeners just one of them today just so they get a taste to see like, oh, what is this? And then maybe that might actually inspire them to commit to, like, the level one and level two training.

Hélène Thériault: Well, one of the favorite techniques that I get a lot of feedback on is one that's called make a request. So I'll actually test it out with your listeners right now, and I'll explain a bit behind it. But making a request will s- would sound just like this. I'd like to invite all your listeners, and the request is... And when I make a request, you can accept it, you can reject it, decline it, or you can change the terms. My request is to think of a person on, in your life right now, this could be a colleague, this could be a friend, this could be someone you're training with, a student, that you think would benefit from listening to this episode, and send it to them by the end of the day. And so then I would finish off, "Do you accept, reject, or change the terms?" So two things I did when I did that is I created a SMART goal. And when I'm doing this with my patients, one of my clients, the SMART goal is align with our overall agreement that set a contract. So I set a SMART goal that's aligned with something that's of value, hopefully for the individual. And then the other piece, you're in control. You decide if you accept it, accept that request, reject it, or decline it. And of course, when I teach it, it's also very important, a big piece that coach approach does is it improves that therapeutic alliance, that therapeutic relationship. And so it's going to be, when I shared this with my client for the first time, I'll say, "It's absolutely okay for you to say no. you're allowed to decline." So I just make sure that they're okay with this, and I absolutely r- encourage to modify the request. Maybe you'll say, "You know what? I don't really want to take the time to find the link and send it to someone. I'm going to go walk, for a walk with my best friend tonight, and I'm going to share my key takeaways about this podcast with her tonight instead." Great. It's serving the same purpose, right? And so just inviting them to adapt it. So make a request is a technique not always needed to be used, but it can be really powerful

Lillian Emlet: So interesting. I was just thinking that from a leadership lens, for those of you who are more interested in, like, how do I, how do I become a more effective leader and use these particular techniques? It also makes sense, too, that way, Because we have so many projects and so many things that have to happen for our group, so a lot of times people complain about how things are being run. And so as a leader, the reality is offering a suggestion. And again, you can accept, reject, or modify. And so in many ways, it gives agency back to the team to, like, if we need this changed, then we need to figure out a solution, and we means not me. We means we. So here's an idea, and again, reject, accept, or modify. like that. I like that

Hélène Thériault: Yeah. And you can play with your words. I have students that have come back and shared, like I use the word reject but decline might resonate more for people. But you play with that formula but yeah, and that's the idea is it gives the other person ownership and it becomes their action plan

Lillian Emlet: I love that. so you've watched lots of people, lots of clinicians make this shift, younger, older, leader, senior, junior. and when... What changes for them? So what's in it for them six months, a year in? you may have had some feedback. People come return, like they shoot you a message couple months later just like, "Hey, things are going well. things are not going well. But I'm curious, like, what have you heard about what helps their journey as a clinician or a leader?

Hélène Thériault: Yeah. Well, first I have a folder that I called success stories, and when I have a challenging day, I open that folder, and I'm so privileged in where I sit in hearing the impact that this training has. for us, what we monitor six months, 12 months later that we hear from organization, we look at is it preventing burnout? So are we getting high scores on that? is it helping with retention? Therapeutic alliance is what they'll report. Improved communication, not surprisingly. and then the biggest piece that people will share subjectively when you ask, in the learning and feedback form when you follow up, they'll share stories about burnout. And it's interesting because when you look specifically, there's data- it's hard to find clear data, is this coach approach helping with preventing burnout? We can't answer a solid yes or no, but the details I get, in one of the last forms they called it what... When I asked, "What's one word that would describe this training?" And that was just a 12 hours, "Burnout crusher." I was like, "Wow, that's powerful." And so those are the subjective stories that come our way. One of the most... My favorite one that I like to share is very early on when I started to do this training, she was a chiropractor. And she said, "Helene, I, little do you kn-," she followed up with me months later. She said, "Little did you know when I sat in your course, next to me was my letter of resignation that I was going to give to my employer that very week." And she said, "I do your course. I get a ton of these ha-ha moments. I'm like, hold on." She starts doing things differently, shifting her mindset from that expert mindset, and she, five, four years later, she's still in the same role. But she's like, it was such an eye-opener for her, and that those are the success stories that keep me going, when things get challenging. Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: That's amazing. So Helene, thank you so much. This was exactly the conversation I really, hoped it would be. Just so generous and practical and honest. So where can our listeners find out more about your work, bring Function First Coaching and your programs to their organization, their private practice groups, their universities, their graduate training programs? How can they find you and work with you?

Hélène Thériault: Well, what I did is I put together... my team put together a link to make it easier, because I had gathered so many resources that I thought, "Okay, this, it is going to be way easier if I can just one link." So there's, diveintoacoachapproach.com/transforminghealthcarecoaching. So I'll share the link with you. Because in there is, for those that are readers, there is going to be that, white paper if people want to make a business case for using a coach approach in their practice, in their or- their organization. So there's some bedtime reading. There's a great article about AI, because a lot of people are worried about AI, and it's not going to take... So there's a neat, article on that's supports a use of coaching skills, to support you with that transition. And in there as well will be included the LinkedIn, to the best way to contact me, my email, my calendar. And then the one that I hope co- or leaders, are able to access is the coaching culture quiz. That one is a really neat tool made by a researcher, Julie Jenkins, that she put together. And I use the long version of it when I'm working with organizations, but I put together a short version so that people can put- get their pulse on how are we doing with establishing a coaching culture in our organization, and kinda even starting that dialogue, what would be our why for us. So all those outcome measures that we measure, every single organization has a different one. For some, it's preventing burnout. For some, it's retention. So looking at what's our why if we decide to invest in establishing a coaching culture, and what's the data we need to capture to make sure we get our return on investment. So that coaching culture I find is a neat place to start. So lots of goodies, and I'm sure I'll think of more and add it on the page.

Lillian Emlet: I love that. I love that. it really is, amazing to find a gem like what you've created because you are, like, in a completely translational piece. obviously we just, we want to work on the leaders so that the leaders can be empowered, clear, and thinking about the system and the team, and you are giving them all the skills so that it can trickle through the whole organization, through the whole culture, across all professions. And both of us are aligned across all professions. And so together, hopefully can all transform healthcare one person at a time. And so for, it's been an honor to work with you and, have you on the podcast here. I'm looking forward to amplifying your message across, many specialties and professions, and seeing your work grow and grow. And so thank you everybody for listening thus far. Thank you for all the gifts that Hélène is giving us. and so we'll put on the show notes, below on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify. And, please, email us, podcast@transforminghealthcarecoaching.com so that we know what you want to listen to. And thanks so much everyone for listening. Please like, share, and subscribe, and you can, uh, this challenge and hopefully pass it forward. Thanks

Hélène Thériault: I love it