AI in Medical Education:
Leading the Shift Without Losing the Human Side

Transforming Healthcare Coaching Podcast — Episode 86: AI in Healthcare with Dr. Maria Abunto. Host: Lillian Liang Emlet, MD MS CHSE CPC ELI-MP. Guest: Maria Abunto, MD MPH MBA.

Lillian Emlet: Super excited today to talk about what everyone's talking about in healthcare ai, right? So, um, I'm really grateful for my dear friend, colleague, and local healthcare professional physician, Dr. Maria Abunto who is here with us today on the Transforming Healthcare Coaching Podcast, and we're gonna get right into it. uh, Dr. Ubuntu is a consultant. Uh, a clinician and really a connector for lots of people in healthcare. I see her all across LinkedIn connecting people making bridges for how healthcare needs to innovate and translate, um, where it needs to go. So thank you so much, Maria, for being here.

Maria Abunto: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure and I love that we have reconnected after all these years, and the opportunity is, I think it's perfect timing, so thank you.

Lillian Emlet: So Maria, you were chosen as the first ambassador for the American College of Artificial Intelligence and Medicine, and this role was created, um, I believe mainly because we're such an important transformative moment in healthcare. Um, take us back to the moment where you realize that a i in medical education. Isn't gonna go away and it's nothing to be afraid of. And instead, it's something that we need to really embrace and to shape. What made you say yes to be part of, uh, all of this with the, um, American College of Artificial Intelligence and Medicine?

Maria Abunto: Yeah. So it's been a journey. And actually, um, you know what, I believe that the turning point for me was when I realized that AI wasn't something to be feared. It was something that we could actually shape. And so it happened during my executive MBA program in healthcare. When I took a course, two courses, actually that completely opened my eyes.

It was at the University of Pittsburgh where I took health information technology as well as the responsible use of AI and analytics, and that was taught by Dr. Narayan bu. So until then, I thought that technology mostly was a tool. It was used as a tool, something you use to make systems more efficient or analyze data faster.

But through these courses, I started to see it differently. I began to see how technology and data could be used, not just to improve healthcare operations, but to fundamentally transform how we think about care, how we teach, and how we connect, and also how we serve patients. We did say that I am a connector, and I think that is one of the strengths that I've realized too.

And so that realization changed everything. It shifted my mindset from simple curiosity to just that deep conviction and the understanding that AI, when guided by purpose and empathy, could actually strengthen that human side of medicine. And what it could allow is it actually could give us time back.

Time to listen, time to connect, to practice that kind of deep medicine that technology alone can't deliver. So when I was invited to serve as the ambassador of the American College of AI and Medicine, I immediately said yes without hesitation. And because for me, this wasn't just about innovation. It actually was more about intention.

And I think that was so important. It was about making sure that as AI evolves, human wisdom stays at the center of that evolution. And so I want to be a part of building a future where technology doesn't distance us from patients, but it brings us closer to them. And that's what this moment right represents for me.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. No, it was really, it was really important, right? I

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: um, what, maybe a couple months ago, maybe even a year ago, there was a lot of fear talking in the AI

Maria Abunto: Yes.

Lillian Emlet: and guardrails and all of these, and governance and all these words. at the same time, I think for a lot of us, it is moving so fast that most clinicians and leaders can barely

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: And so how does the American college, um, help with that?

Maria Abunto: Well, it actually raises awareness, but it also, what it has done, it actually has bring brought together and it's, it's in its infancy, but it's actually brought together thought leaders, experts in the space who have been doing this for many years already. But now it's really coming to the forefront. And these are, uh, people and whether it's physicians, uh.

You know, those in, in healthcare sector are using this technology, but in a way that has been existing for quite some time now. But now we are actually seeing it and at the end of, you know, the consumer side. And so that's what's actually. Being built out in a lot of what we're seeing, um, across medicine, but as well as this organization is one that we can bring together all of these experts.

But it's an opportunity to learn and be a part of that and shaping, uh, you know, not only the knowledge, but the, um, the, uh, education and, and then also building on that network is so critical.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. I think the reality is if you're not learning about ai, then you're. Then you're already falling behind, which is really scary. And I

Maria Abunto: Yeah,

Lillian Emlet: interesting because we have five generations in the workplace right now, and it's really

Maria Abunto: yeah,

Lillian Emlet: how each is or is not using probably to the capacity or the true understanding,

Maria Abunto: yeah.

Lillian Emlet: what and language models and the training. Um. What can do should do, and it really will take up all of our creativity to think about what we want it to do.

Maria Abunto: Yes. And I think that that's where it's a part of, uh, the learning curve. Uh, we don't want to leave anyone behind, but this is, as educators, this is what's key is to really, uh. Teach those that, um, you know, are in medicine or even in higher ed, you know, these people who actually are, um, excited about all that that's actually coming.

Uh, and be knowing that you actually are an important part of all of this.

Lillian Emlet: I still

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: A year ago I, uh, often told, uh, Chad g, pt, or Claude, that it was wrong. It always apologized to me and then

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: As I, as I basically, uh, gently t taught it. What, what error it had made.

Maria Abunto: Yes. And so it is kind of, uh, learning, right? It is learning from you, but also learning almost, uh, to be not so much a twin, but learning from you and your emotions as well.

Lillian Emlet: Right. And so I guess, um, let's paint a picture of maybe what's already happening out

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: know that medical students and residents are already experimenting with

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: using it to understand like their complex cases get a quick sort of teaching point, and they sort of. Just go ahead and believe what they get back is personalizing, sort of where they are with their

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: it's really interesting to use the different tools and the different models that are out there, different ones behave differently, um, to be able to personalize their learning, to be able to create a, a learning coach, to create like a, a podcast to be able to create quiz bank questions for themselves. Um, what are you seeing that excites you the most about how the newest generation of learners,

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: the students are using ai.

Maria Abunto: Yeah, that's a, that's a great question because, um. I come from a different generation now. I mean, what excites me most is that how fearless the next generation is. Uh, they're going up in an environment where technology isn't something foreign. It's a natural extension of how they learn and communicate.

And they're using AI to understand like disease mechanisms, right? In ways that would've taken us, at least me, months of manual work. And so a lot of these simulations or simulating patient encounters even that I'm doing it all without, uh, with a all this sense of possibility and not fearful of it.

They're not intimidated and, but they're curious and I think that that's what's important. It is that curiosity will move medicine forward. So it's not about really just mastering the tools, but it's also asking what else is possible. And that what I, you know, that's what I find remarkable about this, um, new, this generation and generations to come.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. I also think that's the most important lesson right now for every student or

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: uh, person in healthcare. We have a lot of wisdom as senior faculty, and also you have a lot of wisdom as new students because what you teach us is the curiosity and willingness to

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: And so for me, uh.

Playing around to see what

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: um,

Maria Abunto: how.

Lillian Emlet: actually kind of fun to be able to see whether you can question and push. Uh, and also the other way around, ask it to see whether it can question and push you

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: more intelligent, more, more able to put the dots together for, uh, the knowledge. Because I

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: the greatest challenger I think in healthcare.

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: there's so much to know now.

Maria Abunto: is, but you know what's funny is that this is, I, I see AI as the greatest equalizer, right? I think that we all have to have that new mindset where, um, we're learning something new like a, like a child, right? Who's learning something new with these tools? But that's one thing that, uh, is important, is that when you're learning these tools is, uh, you're adapting.

Um, you also have to be collaborative. Um, and, and never lose sight of the fact that, you know, that whole human side of it, that empathy is so important. Um, but that's where the curiosity and that compassion that really has to evolve together and that's where medicine really will truly transform. Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: So that we can, um, uh, allow us to do our parts, the human parts really well, and then let the AI do the techie coordination data Minings. Streaming information routing. Right. Like maybe

Maria Abunto: Yes.

Lillian Emlet: have to be told that I ordered the wrong CT scan 'cause I clicked on the wrong button anymore that somebody, else did it for me.

Maria Abunto: Yeah. But that's the efficiency side of it. But then we can focus as physicians, right on the human side of it where we have more bedside time or time that's more valuable.

Lillian Emlet: Right.

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: So I have to miss an educator. There is some, some interesting, uh, work being done. People are trying to. To think about, uh, try to do things with AI that educators maybe couldn't do before

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: a personalized teaching coach through the AI and giving it guardrails on how much, um, of showing the work that they can do versus personalizing the learning

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: Um, having unlimited practice scenarios, continuing to have a conversational way to be, to be quizzed across thousands of cases and continue to iterate. And, you know, I think the other thing is, you know, my fear always is will it replace the teachers? Will it replace the educators? And how accurate will the assessments be if we use AI and all of these? Um, and so

Maria Abunto: That's a great point.

Lillian Emlet: you think Yeah. AI is going to expand our capacity

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: the teaching and assessment of, uh, clinicians.

Maria Abunto: Yeah, that's a great, great question. And I think that, that as an educator myself, that's where AI expands what educators can do in ways we couldn't even imagine a few years ago. You know, we can now create, like you mentioned, personalized learning journeys and how each student can adapt. Um. What, you know, to their strengths or to the gaps or even that pace.

So imagine a learner who struggles with one concept and instead of waiting for the next lecture, then they can go get instant feedback, right? They can tailor the resources, but even ai, uh, empowered coaching and meets them exactly where they are. It's almost like a. A, a study by, right? We can give students these unlimited practice cases and also even visualize these complex data systems.

So. As an educator, I, I look at it as like having a classroom without walls. The one that's dynamic, one that's inclusive, but also that one, that's all also evolving and that's the beauty of ai. It doesn't replace educators. It actually amplifies them. So it gives them more time to focus on what truly matters.

So the conversations, the mentorship, but you know, these are moments of discovery and it's. It's, it's both, right? It's for educators and also the students. So, um, I believe that, you know, what students will remember most is not the algorithm, it's the educator who helped them think differently. You know, and 'cause AI handles the repetition, right?

That's where automation happens, but it's the humans that bring that. Reflection piece, that meaning, and as Mike mentioned, that empathy. And so that's where I believe as an educators, that's where the real transformation happens. That when technology take care of the what and the educators will focus on the why.

And I think you, you touched on that briefly.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. You know, I also wonder whether the, the reality is going to be, uh, we have a very different metric that we will end up having to, uh, adhere to, you know, because right now, like having knowledge based tests may not be the correct way anymore to measure efficacy or competency. And so one wonders. How do we measure truly critical thinking

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: the critiquer and the thought process put together, right?

So if with you, if we use AI to get information, but what do we do with that information and then how do we logic it

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: how do we logic it out with a conversational, generative AI assisted coach, learning coach plus all of the humans that are also interacting with it. Um, so it. is gonna be an interesting time and place where,

Maria Abunto: Yes.

Lillian Emlet: be the new competencies?

Maria Abunto: Well, what's interesting too, when you're actually talking about that and how meds, medicine and med schools are now popping up across the country, um, there's one that, and actually if you've, uh, heard recently in the news is, uh, is it Ann um, Walton, right? The, uh, owner of a family who owns Walmart. She opened up a medical school free for all.

Uh, I believe it's in, in Nebraska. Um, I may have that wrong, but it was recently in the news where the school is called Awesome, A-W-S-O-M. So it's, it's Ann Walton School of Medicine and it is amazing. If you wanna look it up, it's actually was talking about. Teaching students, medical students in a different way and different experiences.

Uh, for instance, there is a, um, they're even talking about, uh, you know, using a, a garden, you know, the, the tactile kind of stimulation of knowing like, okay, so these are things that I have to take care of in the garden. So things like that. So it's that human experience that they're teaching now. Students, uh, virtual reality, right?

Some of those things that they're using as well. So, um, art, they're also using art in the form of way to. You know, express creativity, but how now these new students will be learning these different forms of, um. And in medicine, right? And to really think across more broadly on just the didactics, right?

And, um, the test taking, things like that. So I think that that's where we have to evolve and realize medicine has changed and it is changing, but schools like this, it now bringing, uh, you know, um, issues and the, and the, that have to be, I think, more centralized towards a human experience. It's, it's very cool.

Yeah, it's very cool. So,

Lillian Emlet: Yeah, so I hear what you're saying too. The, the reality is, I think the way for the future is

Maria Abunto: yeah.

Lillian Emlet: AI will allow us to get information more readily at our fingertips that we will critique

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: think out loud

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: get the knowledge pieces. Therefore, it makes sense for us to think more about.

How can we be more human

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: for ourselves

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: continue to have the, uh, the wellbeing piece e hopefully translate? Um, and I do think the, the challenging part is that in our workplaces, the question

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: follow, right?

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: workplaces that doesn't exist and that gets lost at some point in graduate medical education, um, different from undergraduate medical education.

Maria Abunto: Yeah, I think it, a AI is actually, I, you know, something that can, at different levels and education needs to be addressed because it's here. And, uh, I think the, not only the leaders, educators, even students need to come to the table and actually, uh. You know, make sure that we are all aligned because policies are not standardized, um, even by state or county, especially here in Pennsylvania.

Uh, so there's only a few counties that have policies in place, um, in higher ed or in even in a, you know, in education. So, um, elementary school, K through 12, right? So I think that's where we need to come together and. And make sure that not only voices are heard, but there are policies in place. Those guardrails.

Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: those are really interesting too. My daughter often makes fun of me because she's like, you use ai, therefore your quality of work is really not as good as,

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: constructing a whole paragraph by herself. And it is gonna be interesting because I do think there's gonna be some fundamental

Maria Abunto: Yes.

Lillian Emlet: even if you use

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: still need to know. And I think that's gonna be the, because what if the power goes out?

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: that is gonna be an interesting thing as we face

Maria Abunto: Yeah,

Lillian Emlet: is to still making sure that we have the building blocks can't go

Maria Abunto: absolutely.

Lillian Emlet: be interesting to sort of see how we weight the importance of, you

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: being blindfolded would be like if you didn't have AI to help

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: and still be able to deliver the care.

Right. For

Maria Abunto: Right?

Lillian Emlet: settings or resource limited

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I think we always have to remember, you know, that, that the foundation of all of this is really going back to the basics, right? Not losing that. Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. Um, and so I guess what in, in, in transitioning for the healthcare educators and leaders that are listening that are deans or program directors or coordinators or teaching faculty,

Maria Abunto: Hmm.

Lillian Emlet: is a really good opportunity that you're gonna need to learn something

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: right alongside. Your learners, like right alongside the students and the residents.

And so what,

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: journey look like for

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: ourselves? How do leaders approach this with curiosity instead of

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: or trying to pretend like they know something that they don't?

Maria Abunto: And I, and yeah, that's, that's true because I think there's some educators and leaders too who already are feeling that. Right. Um, but I, I think if you have that growth mindset to be learners, again, AI can feel intimidating, but that's okay. Right. Transformation always starts with a bit of that uncertainty and getting.

Comfortable with the uncomfortable, but the key is curiosity. It's not perfect and neither, you know, is ai, right? So it's not about perfection. Um, but we don't have to also master every detail of machine learning or data science to engage meaningfully. I am, you know, um, not an expert in that. So I know that that is really for me, it's where I need to really start by asking better questions.

For instance, um, if you're a practicing physician, right? How could this tool help us serve patients better? Or what bias, what might we be missing, you know, and who isn't at the table? I did mention that. Who isn't at the table when these decisions are being made? Um, so that kind of curiosity is what fuels progress.

So for example, um. A medical device or a tool, or an app or a wearable, uh, you know, engineers are developing that, right? Startups are actually trying to push for that, uh, to be mainstream. But at that table, sometimes these designs, there's no physician on board. So bringing them in, I think that's key. But when leaders are willing to learn and also bring the others in their team, um, it changes everything.

You know, it creates that culture where people will feel, seen, heard and safe to explore. But even being, perhaps even having patience at that table, you know, uh, I think we cannot forget about them, the end users. And so that's, I believe too, that's, well, trust. Um, makes that possible. Right? So different, uh, people at the table, that's where that transformation can happen.

Um, and just, you know, learning and leading when that, you know, through that change and not, it's okay to not know everything, but to be inspired, right. To have everyone learn together.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah, you can definitely see how, um, there's, there's something new in AI almost every single week,

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: so many news outlets and different ways you can play and different things you can do with different models. And I would say the probably for me right now, the biggest thing is to, to learn to use multiple different

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: comes out, just play with it.

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: um. Uh, important that as, as the conversation starts to engage with your leadership, be like, Hey, you know what? I know I just missed sort of like this quiet clinician in the corner, but my voice might matter. And so

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: to really open and democratize, even in our leadership teams, it doesn't have to be the one it or

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: uh, health information technology sort of lead, right?

'cause every group has like a lead that then goes in with the hims

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: um. Uh, to talk about like what changes are coming down the electronic medical record, but

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: an opportunity, quality of proven

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: people, educators, AI is for everyone.

Maria Abunto: It is. And also, we also have to caution that AI can create inequities, right? I think it is for everyone, but for those maybe who don't have access. To, um, you know, even wifi for instance, right? Uh, those educators or those people in the rural area. So we have to think about that too, like medical schools that are popping up in rural Pennsylvania.

But, um, you know, the people, the patients that they serve, do they have access, let's say, you know, to their electronic medical, uh, health records, um, by using a tool, um, from the health plan or something like that. So we also have to think to the benefit, um, downstream, right? And this whole process, so.

Lillian Emlet: Well, I guess that kind of leads into my next

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: like, how do we really get practical? Um, so if a program or a medical school

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: integrating AI literacy, um, for their faculty. Um, and their staff more thoughtfully

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: and they don't know where they can fit it in.

They're not sure. They obviously can't just do a one time lecture and think that

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: everything and they also can't tell people, go home and just try to figure it out on your own.

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: So what are some of the first building blocks that you think are probably the. You know, sort of fundamental things that every, you know, department,

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: hospital needs to start with

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: able to get people ready because this is gonna be a progress of learning

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: AI ready. what kinds of things do we need to start thinking about if you're a leader?

Maria Abunto: Yes. And that's an excellent question because that's one that I'm actually working on as part of my research in higher ed. And um, we're trying to raise the voices of those in Pennsylvania, and that includes students. And so I believe that the way we could prepare. Uh, students I think, who will practice medicine for the next 40 years.

Um, and half of the tools that they'll probably use haven't even been invented yet. Right. So with that in mind, our responsibility I always feel is to go back to the basics as educators and leaders. It isn't to teach them every algorithm or app, right? There's just so much out there, but it's to teach them how to think.

Lillian Emlet: Mm.

Maria Abunto: You, we've, you mentioned that critical thinking, so to question those assumptions, right? Interpret data, but also to approach every decision with empathy and integrity. I have had this conversation conversation with many physicians also who are frustrated, right, but also frustrated that some of the residents are using it so much that they're now even their notes.

It just so, looks so polished that it is not. The usual, uh, conversation or, um, that you would naturally see in the notes prior to them using these tools, which is, you know, I, I, I can see that that would probably help in a lot of the, um, efficiency for students, but then that can take care of that. But we mustn't ever lose sight of the fact that the bedside manners matters the most.

Bedside manners and how to teach them. So if you are rounding with them, for instance, that's where they can learn from you, right? As a physician, the modeling be modeling the behavior. And if it's, you know, it's if it's a family and how do you speak to the family? Um, and you know what's, where the human element remains re irreplaceable because no matter what comes down the pipeline, all these apps, all these tools, yes we're learning them at rapid speed, but there's only so much we can learn.

But what we shouldn't lose sight of is that human element that's irreplaceable. Because, you know, medicine, right? I mean, we've seen it in, in, um, not only in cardio cardiology, but also radiology. Um, you know, uh, these, these have been around, right? These tools have been around. It's just now it's coming, um, to, you know.

To every household, right? This opportunity to use it. Um, but it's, it's just chat. GPT is what everybody talks about, but there's so many other things and tools out there, um, that's helping diagnose and treat, uh, in medicine. But I think it, it boils down to really understanding people, um, can't lose sight of that no matter what is out there.

Um, trying to keep up with all these technology. I think that's partly a. I guess part of the system. Um, we started with electronic health records, right? Learning that, learning epic. But now there's going to be a lot of other things that's going to be layered on top of that, but hoping it will actually be more efficient, faster diagnosis, faster, you know, treatments, um, getting that treatment to patients.

But what will stay constant though is. That relationship that you would build with the patient, right? That one will never change. That one should always be one that is nurtured and cultivated.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah, so two things come up for me in that example that you

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: is the fact that, well, if you don't like the output, then train the model differently, right? Because if

Maria Abunto: Okay.

Lillian Emlet: the same

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: a different language model, you will get different outputs. And so I think the most,

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: advice I'm currently seeing is, uh, that you have to triangulate

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: models.

So you need to actually try. man is

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: Claude Gemini. You actually need to try multiple ones and see how different it is because then you'll start to understand that the programming on the backend is meant to give you different outputs. And so if you don't

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: you can just actually request through your IT people.

How are we going to make it sound little bit different?

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: focus the teaching points

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: be able to communicate that more effectively

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: with the patient

Maria Abunto: And you've heard of ambient ai, right? Um, and a bridge is now, um, all over Western Pennsylvania and that tool is now, you know, being accepted at the same time. Um, that's also one that's going to have to be iterated many times, right? That's going to be. Like, uh, you said like, so you're gonna have to output if you don't, you have to change it a little bit.

Right. And, and to try to refine it. And then that's what's the beauty of that is that we can do that, uh, with these tools that we have now. So,

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. I

Maria Abunto: yeah.

Lillian Emlet: Rob presented the very first prototype so

Maria Abunto: Yeah. See,

Lillian Emlet: very neat to see the entire arc now come and just continue to spread,

Maria Abunto: yeah.

Lillian Emlet: the most important thing that is that everybody should. Get your voice heard at the table that in your group there are probably ways to make the case, to make it more

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: to culturally how, how you speak and how things can be more.

Um. Specific to you, right? 'cause we already know

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: several of the models you can give the training data sets so that this is

Maria Abunto: Yep.

Lillian Emlet: talk, this is my style. And it's, uh,

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: start to think about like in some of the AI writing courses I've taken, it's all about, well, what is style?

What is taste? What, why do, why do certain passages and construction of certain sentences resonate in a certain way for you?

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: the anatomy? And so it is almost gets you brought back to like high school and college, right? Where you're thinking about how things are, I mean, again, going back to

Maria Abunto: Yes. Yes. And also knowing that we have our own biases too, right? Whatever model that we're trying to create and, uh, some of the, um, calculations or whatever it is, but what we're putting in there, it actually could also introduce bias at the same time. That's, that's where we have to keep refining it. Um, because even the tool itself, uh, will have.

It's own biases, so it's something that we also need to be aware of, um, and using it responsibly.

Lillian Emlet: Right, which is why it's gonna be interesting because there, there really should not be, one large player is

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: triangulated multimodel and I think most of the new, um, softwares that come out often have multimodel behind it so that it can sort of flex to which one seems more

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: And I think that's the most challenging thing.

I

Maria Abunto: Right.

Lillian Emlet: for most end users, people just want an easy fix and is not an easy fix. It

Maria Abunto: it is not.

Lillian Emlet: Yeah. Interaction with, with what's happening

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: in some ways

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: might find it faster just to go do the old fashioned way for now until it gets used to, until it gets used to how you like to do things.

Maria Abunto: And that's also what really we uncovered too at the GE Conference. And we'll get to that. You know, we will probably get to that question a little bit later, but, uh, that's, that's what part of the learning too, as. Healthcare provider, right. Is to, you know, to always be not only, um, curious, but ask questions, but we be a lifelong learner because this is going to be changing as, you know, as it evolves.

So, and to keep up with that. Right. Um, like you said, Dr. Rao, like many years ago Right. It was just the prototype and here it is.

Lillian Emlet: Yep.

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: Well actually I was gonna ask you like, so, uh, uh, as the ambassador for, um, the

Maria Abunto: Yeah,

Lillian Emlet: of AI Medicine,

Maria Abunto: yeah,

Lillian Emlet: what opportunities are there? Like where, what does it offer

Maria Abunto: yeah.

Lillian Emlet: organization

Maria Abunto: No. Yeah. Okay. So, um, American College of AI and Medicine, it actually is a new organization, fairly new, and it patterns and it follows basically the same as format or even. You know, it aligns very, very closely with American College of Physicians, so a CP. So where you can become a fellow, you can join, um, spend at least two years as far as, you know, being actively involved in the organization to become a fellow or if you've already been practicing and, and using AI and, uh, producing a lot of research as well, well as publications.

Um, there's opportunities for you to become a fellow, but it, it's, it's a great organization because it's a time to start us now while it's still young, because you can be as involved as you want to help shape it. And this is where clinicians, educators, and innovators all come together to learn. Um, we had, um.

You know, very different, uh, specialties representing from radiology, cardiology, family medicine. Um, and, uh, and what I like most is that you don't have to be a data scientist. So you don't have to be a code or anything to be a part of this. You just have to be curious and open to learning. We have, um, you know, just a truly interdisciplinary community and so.

We're building on that. Um, this was a, a last conference recently in Chicago, um, this year, uh, brought together about 300 people. Um, what's nice about this too, it's free for students, medical students, and fellows. And residents. So if, if you have an opportunity to go next year. Um, and I can send that information to you too.

I, I highly recommend it. There are also opportunities to present a poster and there's competition. Um, we had people worldwide coming from Turkey, from, uh, the Middle East. Uh, yeah, it's, it was great. Um, and there were, I'd have to say some of the best, um. Speakers, um, lined up and I was so impressed I walked away from that going, I probably would've never met them had it not been for this conference.

So, yeah.

Lillian Emlet: so

Maria Abunto: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: that everyone has an opportunity. So I actually joined the college. I wasn't able to go this

Maria Abunto: Yeah,

Lillian Emlet: Um,

Maria Abunto: I saw that.

Lillian Emlet: there, aside from the American

Maria Abunto: Yes.

Lillian Emlet: are there other go-to resources? Are there any books or

Maria Abunto: Mm-hmm.

Lillian Emlet: or online courses that you'd recommend to healthcare professionals

Maria Abunto: Yes,

Lillian Emlet: their literacy?

Maria Abunto: sure. Yes. So, um, there's another organization called American Board of AI and Medicine, and that offers more of like the structured courses, um, that you can, uh, actually sign up for. There's a fee for that. And then you walk away with, I think you get a certificate of completion. Um. Other resources. As I mentioned, I took the courses like with the University of Pittsburgh.

Um. The, the School of Business. And so those courses there, uh, I'd have to say one of the popular ones is Stanford of ai, um, learning courses online, uh, Carnegie Mellon University. So that's a number one school, a country, and, um, if not the world, uh, so I, uh, would highly recommend looking at courses there.

They have executive education as well, or, um, those that are. You know, not able to attend full time or, or, and working and going back to school. That's an opportunity. But I think you, you, you know, try to also talk to other people who've taken it, if you can, in your network. Um, and the podcast that I listen to is called, uh, AI Meets Medicine.

Um, a very cool one that I. To also listen to on my walks it's called, uh, hidden Brain. You've heard of that? Yeah. And the books. Um, you did ask about books, so I have some here on my table. One.

Lillian Emlet: last question. My last question is gonna be is what else are you reading aside from, uh, ways to kind of get smarter in ai And like for me, we'll put all of these in the show notes

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: for people who are listening in terms of free online courses, just to get fundamentals and, um, uh, I, and I totally agree with American Board AI Medicine that also has a lot, those, those great, um, resources. And so as we come to a conclusion, uh, um, Maria, what other things are you reading that maybe isn't AI related,

Maria Abunto: Oh, not AI related. Okay. Um,

Lillian Emlet: could be

Maria Abunto: okay. Yeah. Well.

Lillian Emlet: and fun for you?

Maria Abunto: Oh, okay. Um, happy and fun for me is actually being able to take walks in the morning before I start my day listening to podcasts, but also, uh, just reflecting on, um, what you know will be, I guess, you know, the next step for me or even during my day, right? You know, what do I actually wanna take away from this podcast or this, my meetings coming up, um, or preparing for other meetings.

Um. But the book that, um, I am reading for ai, I just wanna show you real quick, and then I have one that I actually was gifted from my sister. So the one that I'm still reading is Deep Medicine. You can see that by Eric Tobel.

Lillian Emlet: Ah.

Maria Abunto: Oh, and I, I would highly recommend even subscribing to his, um, newsletter. He is, yeah.

Yeah, he's great. Uh, so I'm on chapter 12 talking about the virtual medical assistant. That sounds very cool. Uh, one I think you would like, um, Louis is emotional intelligence.

Lillian Emlet: Oh,

Maria Abunto: the age of ai, and this is by Bradley Goon, and I can send all of this information to you. One that, uh, I was also given, and I think this one is worth a read.

It's called The Signals Are Talking, and that's by Amy Webb. Um, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's about why today's fringe is tomorrow's mainstream. So interesting. And then I was gifted this book from my dear sister, and it also has helped me in a lot of ways as far as, you know, being more emotionally intelligent.

And it's called the Let Them Theory. Have you heard of?

Lillian Emlet: yes. We did that on the, we

Maria Abunto: You did,

Lillian Emlet: uh, book club.

Maria Abunto: you did.

Lillian Emlet: we are in our Med Thrive Connect book club. So

Maria Abunto: I saw that.

Lillian Emlet: suggestions and so I can't wait to dive into those.

Maria Abunto: Yeah. And I, yeah,

Lillian Emlet: all of those. Do you have

Maria Abunto: you're welcome. Um, I think, let me see. Do I have one more? Um, I, I said yeah, the Hidden Brain, and I think that was, yeah, I think that,

Lillian Emlet: great.

Maria Abunto: yeah.

Lillian Emlet: is a really great podcast.

Maria Abunto: Yeah.

Lillian Emlet: Well, thank you so much for coming

Maria Abunto: You're welcome.

Lillian Emlet: and how, where we're gonna head, uh,

Maria Abunto: Thank you.

Lillian Emlet: day and time with being a medical clinician, be able to influence sort of what that looks like. And it's mostly, mostly importantly, how are we going to shape the teaching and training of our future generations of nurses, physicians, nps, PAs, across the diaspora of, of the United States healthcare system. Um, so thank you so much for

Maria Abunto: Thank.

Lillian Emlet: and sharing all those resources. We'll put all of these in the links below in our YouTube channel and, uh, in our Apple and Spotify channels as well.

Maria Abunto: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Lillian Emlet: Thanks so much. And so next time, uh, please feel free to email us at podcast@transforminghealthcarecoaching.com. If you have anything you want us to cover, I know you have burning questions.

We've already covered other people's requests before, so get on that email, tell us what you want us to talk about. We'll see you next time.